Building more Muscle.
Considering some of the things happening in the news today, I thought this was timely. Biggest mistake we make with regards to building muscle is false expectations of what is actually possible.
Hi Brad!
I read almost every article u wrote, and your view is very impressive.
But I have 1 question (maybe off topic, sorry)
You say the amount of protein is not so important, the quality of the food is not so important (ok avoid crap), 2-3 workout per week is enough to keep or build muscle.
What is then the mistake what most of the average gym rat make?
Ok we can see some real life example like you, but every competitive bodybuilder use (or they lie) the old method (6-8 meals, lot of protein above 300 grams, lot of training, cardio everyday) and not only for the end of the preparation, but from the beginning.
Hey Wood,
The average gym rat makes the mistake of thinking they can get ’steroid-like’ growth without taking steroids, plain and simple.
I don’t think bodybuilders lie when they say they eat 8 meals a day, protein above 300 grams, lots of training and Cardio. I think this is 100% true.
I’ll even admit that this might be the right way to do things when you are on 3 grams of test a week, combined with some GH and Insulin, plus maybe a little Clenbuterol.
And, I’ll also admit that there is a possibility that even the non-bodybuilder-guys who use a “small amount of drugs” like cover models (and I suspect even before and after models), might benefit from eating this way.
I’m no expert when it come to drugs and the way they alter nutrient needs.
But for normal, non-drug using adult human beings it is your genetics combined with your training that determines how much muscle you can add, your protein intake and food quality has very little to do with it. They still plays a role mind you, just not the role that advertisers would make you think.
Bottom line: You can NOT get drug like effects from powdered protein.
BP
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Brad Pilon, Devin Glage. Devin Glage said: RT @BradPilon: My truth about building more muscle http://bit.ly/4DqZSa Well said. Another case of form being chosen over function. [...]
PS – I should point out that you don’t have to BE big to LOOK big, this is part of the problem.
People often assume people who LOOK muscular are ten, twenty even thirty pounds heavier than they actually are.
Most times, they are much lighter then you’d expect. They are just lean, and have muscle in the right places.
http://www.adoniseffect.com is an example of this phenomena.
Very good point about “muscle in the right places.” I just recently went to Josh Barban’s blog where he posted pictures of his 1.56 ratio (near golden ratio) and he asked the viewers to guess his weight.
Hi Brad,
great post by the way. If only I new this when I first started training, I could have saved myself a fortune. I would have also had a realistic idea of what could have been achieved without the use of performance enhancing drugs.
Keep up the good work!
EDIT: John* Barban. Sorry.
Good job Brad. I tell people this all the time. The Fitness Industry as a whole has kept the impact of steroids covered up since the 1950′s. Until they honestly address this issue and set the record straight on this – there will never be any lasting change to the health, fitness obesity issues in this country faces.
I agree with the P.S. all the way. I just paid very close attention to last weekend’s MMA fights and noticed that mostof the guys were around 5’10″ and around 160 – 175 but looked HUGE! I also just learned that Mario Lopez, Sylvester Stallone, and Daniel Craig are all 5’10″ and are around that same 175 lbs mark, but to the naked eye they look much larger.
Kind of like these optical illusion on size:
http://www.planetperplex.com/en/item162 (For this post the white balls represent body fat and the red muscle!)
Cool post Brad!
The dude from Crank…Jason Statham is also about 5’10 170… so there are four bodies all about same height (within and inch or two), same weight (within probably ten pounds), but looking drastically different.
The truth would kill sales pretty quickly… that and (unfortunately) a lot more 18 year olds would be on winstrol as opposed to ultra-pump 5000
Hi there Brad!
I agree, that many (especially new people who get into training) think they can add 20-40 lbs of MUSCLE in a short time. Sorry, not going to happen.
Protein does NOT have the same effect as drugs. Although, protein timing (post training) does have literature to support it being highly anabolic. Again, while this is a great effect to take advantage of, but I agree that it does not compare to the effects of drugs.
My simple thoughts for training are
Frequency + Load = Bigger Muscles and more strength
More details here on a recent blog post I did http://su.pr/1awbU4
If you want to LOOK strong you need to BE strong.
Rock on!
Mike T Nelson PhD ( c)
Yeah, John and I should do a photo shoot standing beside eachother…we’re about 10-15 pounds different, but it’s a DRASTIC difference…amazing how little the ‘weight’ number actually means..
B
I would add that some people have hormonal imbalance ie low testosterone and may not know it. I discovered that I had low testosterone. No matter how hard I worked out I felt like nothing was happening and I was not very motivated. I am now taking bio identical testosterone. (Very, very important that it is bio identical, NOT “big pharma” drugs.) In addition to the other “mind blowing” benefits, I feel really strong and excited to exercise. Both women and men need testosterone at the appropriate levels. Hormone balance is critical for weight management and overall physical and mental health.
Very very true unfortunately.
Even with steroids, the average person doesnt realize that the shredded muscle look isnt “average”. Olympic athletes train for HOURS every single day, week in and week out, year around. Whether they are on performance enhancers or not, the kind of training they do outstrips anything the “average gymrat” does.
I think Brad is right on the money. and he’s being very honest when he tells us that if your genetics isn’t right and your not taking steroids, there is very little chance that you are going to look like guys out of flex magazine. Its true though that some guys are blessed with a bigger body to begin with and work very hard and eat enough calories to support growth and of course are young enough to build a noticable gym body. But those guys are not the norm, this is not to say that one can’t be very fit have good muscle mass and be athletically inclinced and intelligent to know that there are other ways to workout besides what they read in muscle mags.
Hi Brad, i always follow your advice and actually follow eat stop eat. But i do have a little problem with the idea that you can gain muscle, while being in a caloric deficit if you train hard enough. I believe you can maintain your muscle. But gain? You know Martin Berkhan right? he also follows IF, but as a daily 16 hour fast. The guy is huge, its all natural, but he clearly states that to gain size you need to eat enough, you either lose fat, or gain muscle, not both at the same time. Also Lyle Mcdonald who i belive is an honest guy, not looking to make money buy selling lies, also states the same, you need to be in caloric surplus to gain muscle. So im really confused.
do you think creatine is a valuable addition to an eating plan?
Ya, Barban is the best example. Most people, like 99% of people would be well served in achieving Barban’s physique, and that’s very achievable naturally. Just check out his “how much do I weigh” post.
Brad getting to your size though would not require drugs for the average guy would it? I personally dont think many people would want to look like an actual body builder but more yours or Craig Ballintyne’s physique. I have both your books and think theyre great, when you say protien and quality of food dont matter as much as people think do you beleive you have to increase your calories dramatically to gain size? thanks.
Brad,
I object to your generalization “your protein intake and food quality has very little to do with it.”
If you’re eating less than 1 g/kg/day of protein, or have an omega6/omega3 intake > 4 then these things will make a significant difference.
Hey Jarod,
Yeah, both my and Craig Ballantyne’s physiques are very attainable by the average guy, I’m 5’10 and 170 while fasted, that puts me at about lean body mass of 155ish pounds, which as almost exactly what you would expect from a 5’10 male who weight trains. Craig is probably not far off those numbers.
Creatine is good if you want to look and feel bigger.
The weight it creates is lean mass, not necessarily actual skeletal muscle, but like I said, for looking and feeling bigger, it’s a good addition.
B
Mike,
If you can find some sort of evidence of the energetic needs of muscle building per unit of tissue, and that that this energetic need is not met by your basal metabolism, then I’d be open to changing my conclusion. But based on my review of the evidence, I’ve seen nothing to support the idea that there is a measured caloric cost to muscle building, or that it is above and beyond your BMR.
BP
Alexander-C
VERY true. and I have known more than a few men on steroids who still were not able to create a body anywhere near what I would consider “impressive”.
N
Thanks Mike,
As you know I’m still not convinced of post workout protein.
All the markers used to date, whether tracers, nitrogen balance or protein signaling still have not shown to correlate to any measurable change in lean mass.
‘highly anabolic’ in the scientific use of the term still does not mean ‘muscle growth’
but other than that, you and I are on the exact same page.
B
Chris,
I’m not sure I agree with your use of the term generalization.
B
Hey there Brad,
Yes, I agree that most (not all) of the studies done are short term/acute/ mechanistic type data (tracer studies), but according to Dr Stu Phillips (paraphrasing from last ACSM conference) the short term data does add up to longer term gains in muscle. To be perfectly honest, I have not had time to track down the data though.
I do have an issue with TIMING of protein even carbs data, but I do think it is a good idea (consuming more protein and calories, within limits),. Last I checked there are only about 3 studies where ONLY the TIMING of pro/cho was different (macros the same and calories the same). One of them being the Cribb study which seems too good to be true and was not reproduced recently.
So, for the extra few calories and easy of compliance I still vote for protein post training in the mean time.
Open to any data that you have of course!
Rock on
Mike T Nelson PhD(c)
Hi Brad, I just want to let you know I went to a bodybuilding seminar at a Chicago gym back in the day and saw a professional bodybuilder. He said dont believe a thing in Muscle and Fitness. We bodybuilders take steroids and work out very hard. Just wanted to add that.
I think the average gym rat also makes the mistake of doing a bunch of isolation exercises as opose to squats, presses, and pulls from the floor…
But even John Barban has admitted that he has experimented with steroids in the past. So many “naturals” actually use steroids for a little while then go off them and retain some of the gains. This gives them a nice foundation to work with and then they go into “natural” bodybuilding competitions.
Can you really create the same physique if you have never, ever used steroids in your life. I’ve never used gear ever and I’ve built some reasonable muscle over 20 years but I don’t think I’ll ever get shoulders or arms like Barbans because I don’t have that foundation that the drugs can give you.
What do you think? Am I misguided or just frustrated
?
I have seen more visible results (more muscle mass, less body fat) even though I’ve reduced my training to 2X per week — once heavy weight training, and the other body-weight highly metabolic training. I also eat wholesome real foods, with intermittent fasting. My body fat remains at 5% to 8% — I don’t check that often. I believe I have more muscle now than I did in the past, even though I’m pretty certain my calorie intake now is less than it has been in a couple of decades. My workouts are short (20 – 30 minutes) and infrequent (2X a week), but very intense and focused.
My experience seems to reflect your stance on things.
Brad,
this is a very big – and good – surprise. I tought You just deleted my off topic question, but You wrote a post to answer is, Thank You.
Just it is very hard to accept (even im over 30, so out from dreams) in our “perfect world” that you can’t be so muscular than the guy on the stage or in magazines (even im over 30, so out from dreams).
So the key is genetic (mine is poor) time and hard work. Damn
Wholly depends on your starting point (not sure if wholly is a word).
I’ve known JB since 4th year University, and I have never and will never have arms and traps as big as his. But I can out press him, and most people I know. So that’s an area he will probably never catch me.
I have another good friend who played O line through University. I will never have legs like his.
I think it really depends on where you are starting and how much and how often you used, how long and how seriously you trained and how well you trained to your strengths.
Bottom line – Everybody has the opportunity and genetics to look great. Especially if they don’t get stuck trying to look like someone else.
James,
I think this is a bit of standard “I’m not a bodybuilder” rhetoric. Consider this, many of the bodybuilders I have known, including ones weighing well over 300 pounds still make the ‘mistake’ of doing a bunch of isolation exercises as opposed to squats, presses and pulls from the floor.
Over the summer I watched a kid go from 170 to 240 on a healthy routine of concentration curls, quad extensions, bench presses and Dianabol.
Now don’t get me wrong, I agree that for a non-juice user, your suggestions are sound, but I don’t think they are the difference maker. I think drugs are.
Sorry to go off topic, just a quick question
you said that fasting or low calories does not cause muscle loss, only if you use the muscle. i have read, everywhere that isolation exercises are a waste of time and we should be using full body exercises, but i have a problem. in order to retain lean mass, we are going to have to hit the entire body during the course of the week, so isolation exercises would be good eg mon=back/tricep, tues=chest/bicep, fri=Legs/shoulders. this way we are using all of the major muscles in the body, and hitting them hard enough to retain them. however if we were to do 2-3 intense full body workouts, we would not be able to hit them as hard, as we would need longer to recover, then 2 days. because with the splitting method, we have a week of recover.
is guess the question is, how do we in corperate full bdy workouts, but how do we make them intense enough to cause no muscle loss, yet still give enough time to recover?
sorry for the wall of text
Ty,
Yeah I wish I could be my own cross over experiment and do it all again without the drugs and see if I would still end up right where I am at.
What I can say is that it’s been over 12 years since I’ve used anything, so I’ve been clear for a long time, and clear for about 4 times longer than I ever used anything for, and I’m at about the bodyweight I was before I ever used anything…so my guess is this is just about where I would have been anyway (but we’ll never know for sure)
Id be very surprised that 3 years of intermittent drug use (I was pretty spotty with my use even when I did use them) would result is lasting gains over 12 years later.
Most guys I know who have used and then come off for good have the same thing happen. We basically go right back to what we looked like before we started using.
Brad is right, I could never bench press as much as him then and I still can’t. That is just something he’ll always be better at than me. Each of us has some muscle group of exercise that we’re just built to be better at…mine happens to be shoulders/traps.
John
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I have come to accept the lack of large muscle growth while focusing on what my body is capable of achieving. My issue is that I have never, ever been able to drop below a certain body fat percentage and this has been difficult for me to accept (I haven’t yet).
I have tried, really, tried, absolutely every diet and exercise combination that exists. The only way I have ever lost a significant amount of weight is to shock my body with a totally new dietary (not workout) regimen that causes it to lose muscle so the total amount of fat can decline while maintaining a 20+% level. I have lost up to 40 pounds this way and at the end, with relatives asking if I had cancer…no abs, no definition. I can look at pictures of myself after Army Ranger school in my twenties, extremely thin…but smooth, no abs, no definition. I can look at myself now, working out regularly, slowly making continuous strength gains…no abs, etc.
Aside from all manner of workout regimens, I have low-carbed for years straight…focused on fat to the exclusion of protein…high protein…low fat…low calorie…high calorie…high frequency…fasting…and any combination of the aforementioned you can think of. I currently follow an Eat-Stop-Eat approach, but not (alas) for any fat loss benefit. I persist in it because I feel better and I like being able to go without food with no ill effect…comes in handy sometimes.
Over time my body has learned every trick I have thrown at it and it only allows itself to be tricked once, maybe twice. It’s like I have inoculated myself with each method I have followed. The first time I drastically cut calories, I dropped muscle/fat like a rock. At the bottom end I couldn’t keep it up. I moved on to other methods, and when I tried the same approach a few years later, I lost the half the amount of weight before reaching a stopping point. A few more years and I try it again…nothing. My body temperature drops dramatically, I do fine energy-wise for a month or two or three with no fat/muscle loss at all, until ultimately I stop seeing the point and eat more. Body temperature rises with no muscle/fat gain and I’m right back where I started. Same with any weight loss technique…only works well once.
I don’t know what would happen if I was locked away in a concentration camp with low calories and forced labor. I suppose eventually I might look more defined, but I’d bet that my body would once again consume both muscle and fat in equal proportions until it reached an equilibrium.
But you know who I look a lot like? My father and brother. I’m in better shape than both, and I’m at the low end of our family fat percentage range whereas they tend to be a the higher end, but I’m not that much lower for all of my effort. My sister faces the same struggle.
I bring all of this up because in all of this talk about the genetic potential of muscularity (which I do accept and believe) there still appears to be an assumption that getting closer to 10% body fat is something that is in reach for every male. There is still a part of me that really wants to believe this instead of just being happy with who I am. But my personal evidence continues to mount against it and at some point hopefully I’ll find the peace of mind that comes from accepting it.
But I’m not there yet.
Hi Brad
I was wondering as far as muscle building is concerned, what is your stance on food intake? I know you don’t recommend huge food intake, cos for the most part it’s just fat. But do you at least aim to hit your basal metabolic rate number? And then maybe go with the attitude that anything a little extra is okay? What I mean is not purposefully overeating, but not really worrying about the extra here and there. Would you still throw in fasting days for that?
Brad Pilon
Your right. I think if someone has the test levels of 20 men, a poor stimulus is going to be enough to make gains. Why wasn’t it a few posts back that you mentioned a study where a group of people went on steroids but did not exercise and gained around 6 pounds of lean body mass or muscle I can’t remember. While the people who did strength train only grained around 4?
But yes I’m refering to the gym rat who goes in and out of the gym and wonders why they are not seeing the results they want to see. They may have their standards too high. Which a lot of the time is the case. But more often then not people just don’t train well.
Hi Gareth,
That’s pretty much exactly how I approach it.
B
agree with you brad
but some stupid people in my gym still think they can have “bodybuilder body” without streoid. And can have sixpacks when they eat 5-6 meals a day. LOL
i just eat 3 meals a day, n fast 2 times a week. but i have sixpack, “the without 5-6meals” sixpacks n still enjoy my chocolate……
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Agreed!
Brad Pilon discusses Building more muscle…
Questions Answered – Considering some of the things happening in the news today, I thought this was timely. Biggest mistake we make with regards to building muscle is false expectations of what is actually possible….
Brad Pilon discusses How to build more muscle…
An Important question answered – Considering some of the things happening in the news today, I thought this was timely. Biggest mistake we make with regards to building muscle is false expectations of what is actually possible….
Cheers mate.