The following Post is a Guest Post from John Barban – Scientific editor of Eat Stop Eat and author of The Adonis Effect. (Please direct all comments towards John)
***
Good Foods, Bad Foods
I was recently reading some comments about ESE and some other diets and people seem to keep using the words “Good foods” and “Bad foods” .
I think this is a dangerous distinction to be making because it presents the potential for us to label almost anything good or bad depending on our focus and opens the slippery slope towards full blown Obsessive Compulsive Eating.
Let’s look at a mythical example of a ‘good food’ and a ‘bad’ food.
Our mythical “Good’ food = Orange Juice
Our mythical “Bad” food = Cake
If you label orange juice a “good food” you might want to consider all of the following points:
1) Do all brands of orange juice get this distinction?
2) Would the nutritional label of your ‘good’ orange juice have to fit into a certain parameter of sugar, salt, calories, additives etc, per serving? (you could simply adjust the serving size to make it fit, half cup vs full cup)
3) What about the source of oranges used and whether or not they are genetically modified
4) Pesticide use on the oranges used to make your juice
5) Artificial flavors and colors?
6) Political implications of where the oranges came from; was any farmer or region exploited in order to get these oranges into the juice you are drinking, were they paid a fair price, were there government subsidies etc.
7) Environmental impact and fuel usage of transporting the oranges and manufacturing the juice and the container that ended up on the store shelf in your town
…and on and on and on…you could take this more in the political direction, or more environmental, or more biological and the specific effects the juice has on your body (this last one is what I am assuming most people mean when they say ‘good’ or ‘bad’ food).
My mythical ‘bad’ food =A slice of Cake
If you label cake as ‘bad’ food you might want to consider all of the following points:
1) Is store bought pre made cake the same as home made cake even if it contains the same amount of fat, sugar, salt etc?
2) is it only bad because of the amount of calories or fat or sugar it contains? (is one bite just as bad as a whole slice)
3) Does the frequency that you eat the cake make a difference for how ‘bad’ it is. Ie: only once every couple months at a celebration is ok, but once a day is bad?
4) Environmental impact and fuel usage of transporting all the ingredients to the store then ending up in a mixing bowl on your counter then the oven then on your plate.
5) If it were the only piece of food you ate today would it still be ‘bad’
6) If you are in good health, happy with your weight and have no measurable ‘health’ issues before and after you eat the cake is it still ‘bad’
…and on and on and on…
It is my contention that there is no such thing as good and bad foods, there is only this…
The food you choose to eat, and the impact this food has directly on your body (both physiologically and emotionally) and the environment impact if purchasing that particular food item.
When you look at it this way food choices become much more personal than general lists of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ and you can start to become a much more responsible, eater, shopper, consumer, citizen, parent, spouse, person.
John
(please feel free to leave a comment, however, if you want to talk to me directly, feel fee to email me at john (at) adoniseffect.com)
[...] Go to Source Bookmark It Hide Sites $$(‘div.d443′).each( function(e) { e.visualEffect(‘slide_up’,{duration:0.5}) }); Tags: best booster food franchise juice opportunity, booster juice fast food franchise opportunity, food processor and juice [...]
John,
I’ve certainly been guilty of labeling foods as “bad”. I guess I typically call them “junk” food. The funny thing is that I still make a point to enjoy these “junk” foods on a regular basis.
I’ve been eating low-cal the past 5 days, and will be taking my girlfriend out to one of our favorite pubs…we will split a plate of nachos, a plate of hot wings, and a big pitcher of Stella.
This higher calorie food, won’t have a negative impact on my physique since I’ve followed the principles of ESE…still creating an “average calorie deficit” over time.
I love the message that you and Brad are putting out there. Even fit and healthy people enjoy a good cold pitcher of beer every now and then
Rusty
Great post! I am constantly discussing this with my clients who automatically label ‘good’ and ‘bad’ (and I do it myself to some extent and have to check myself for it!) but at the end of the day, it is only the overall picture that sits at a better or worse end of a spectrum – nothing is black and white!
simply refreshing~
Great Blog post John. Nice and concise!
As you say, It is all too easy to get caught up in labelling foods as good and bad as a whole rather than looking on an individual basis.
I personally can’t eat some foods that most people would call ‘good foods’, no matter where they come from. So for me they would be bad… but I know they aren’t.. just not good for me :0)
This information is dangerous stuff for some people: they have to think now, when they make food choices.
People want their food like the Grr-animals clothing of my youth–everything is color-coded, and even a small child could dress themselves.
That’s how people want to see their food–black and white. No gray. So, “good” and “bad” become necessary, since people have been de-sensitized by the absolute avalanche of data. Today’s miracle food, is tomorrow’s #1 cancer agent. (Please see: coffee, grilled foods, olive oil, et al.)
ESE is at least simple, yet not as judgemental about foods as other programs that have an axe to grind (or a pre-packaged meal to sell).
Brad, thanks for sharing the info.
Moderation… Something we Americans don’t really understand.
On a personal note, I wouldn’t put either one of these in my mouth anymore
You these are exactly the things I’ve been thinking about. Cool. Since I started ESE, I’ve been concerned about how our food is delivered from fields and farms hundreds of miles away. This has caused me to start a vegetable garden with the hope of eventually growing most of my own food.
This may sound funny but one of the best insight on this topic is found in World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War. It’s a post apocalyptic world where zombies have taken over the planet, yet humanity had survived. One of the generals commented on how so much of our food is made from ingredients from gathered world wide. Just a bottle of root beer has about six ingredients that are imported from who know where. In a Mad Max world that wouldn’t be a good thing.
It was a good insight in how unsustainable many things are these days.
Well come on. Are you kidding about the political and environment aspects? We all know what good and bad mean generally with respect to diet and healthy lifestyle. How long will it be before that guy from titanic is making the movie “blood bananas?”
Brad you better watch out before this guy starts to make a connection between fasting and starvation techniques used on enemy combatants and puts eat stop eat on the bad guy list!!
It needs to be said. The “good foods”, “bad foods” dichotomy needs to go. Its actually not only not useful, I believe its actually dangerous and creates more confusion and mis-information than anything.
This is certainly ‘food for thought’ and well worth looking at in out diet obsessed world. I will likely still feel that the less a ‘food’ is processed the less likely it will be harmful, but there are plenty of concepts put forth which could argue even that point. Thanks for the thinking material.
Wow. That’s a great post.
It’s so true how we all can make that distinction between a “good and “bad” food. I think that’s also one of the reasons so many people have eating disorders – things they want to eat are identified as “bad” by society or themselves.
Do you think that’s an accurate assumption?
That’s one of the great things about Eat Stop Eat. Brad doesn’t labels foods as “good” or “bad.” I think that is a mindset we all must work to get past.
Do you think, though, that ‘good’ food could be those that suit your nutritional type as in ‘metabolic typing’?
[...] View post: Good Food, Bad Food [...]
John:
It is true that there is nothing intrinsically “good” or “bad” about anything you can think of, in and of itself, everything regarding “goodness” or “badness” is a value judgment by some human being. I like the post, in that it causes us to think about how we judge things before making this judgment. However, to say that we should not make judgments based on what we know goes too far. High-carbs are “bad” for someone who is obese, but “good” for someone in the Tour de France.
Yes, we should think before we judge; but, no, there is relative goodness or badness in when, how, and what we eat.
Thanks,
Patrick
I would really like to not only agree with this post but to also live by it..unfortunately I can’t. I do think there are ‘good’ and ‘bad’ foods. If I eat cake (or cookies or bread or anything with sugar or flour or preservatives) I immediately feel it. I get sick, bloated, and it causes me to become an insomniac along with some other lovely symptoms. These ‘bad’ foods do something in my body that makes me very ill. I know when a food is ‘good’ and healthy and pure when I can eat it and feel good upon doing so. For me, ‘bad’ food even in moderation is not okay. To those of us who can’t see or feel the effects of ‘junk’ food right away..I believe it plays a role in disease or health of the body as we get older. I’m just unfortunate enough to realize it now..and not able to enjoy these ‘bad’ tasty foods. So I do disagree with this post.
Sarah,
I’m not sure about metabolic typing per se, but I agree that each of us will have our own list of foods that just seem to work for us. The only way to find this out is through trial and error.
John
John
This is an interesting way of looking at things. I have to admit that I have not gotten as far as thinking about damage to the environment with regard to my food.
I was brought up on good food vs. bad food, but have been trying not to think about food in that way.
As a Type II-Diabetic a real orange is much better for me than drinking a glass of orange juice — sugar goes direct to system, there is no fibre.
Orange juice is therefore an OK choice but a real orange is better.
I love cake — all baked goods really — it is a “bad” food for me because I can’t just have a piece once in awhile, and put the rest in the freezer. The only way cake can be acceptable for me is to have a piece at the birthdays of my 2 grandsons. I hope someday to be able to have baked goods in the house and not be taking bites, pieces everytime I see or think about it.
Dave,
Actually not kidding at all. There are many people who are making some of their food choices based at least in part on issues of political and environmental impact, examples would be things like fair trade coffee (which is commonly promoted at various coffee shops), local food delivery services that promote local farms and promote food choices that are grown within a certain radius of the customers, and CSA (community supported agriculture) programs where customers take a share of the financial risk along with the farmers in the growing food and even learn to grow some food on their own on plots of shared farmland.
This is a new perspective on food that I wouldn’t have really thought about even 5 years ago. But many people are becoming very aware of these issues and seem to be getting more in touch with food this way.
I’m not saying this is the way everyone should view their food, I’m simply pointing out that this is one of the many ways people do in fact make food choices now.
John
I kinda agree and disagree. At the basic level, most people interested in losing fat and getting healthier need to identify some basic foods to avoid in order to meet those goals. While that may be oversimplification in the true, scientific sense, it is useful as a general guideline for many.
OTOH, I agree that context is important, though the environmental and political issues don’t resonate with me, generally. I classify, subconsciously, foods as cheat-worthy or cheat-unworthy. Orange juice is not there for me, while I would happily have a 300 calorie cheat of a chocolate cake, all the while reciting some secret mantras that automatically spike up my leptin levels and decimate the fat in my body….
Sarah,
I’m not sure about metabolic typing per se, but I agree that each of us will have our own list of foods that just seem to work for us. The only way to find this out is through trial and error.
John
Oops…forgot to say great post! Looking forward to your next one.
This is a great thought process and it seems to be more and more obvious as we become more educated about not just foods, but their results once consumed. I think people, definitely athletes are now thinking about what food will do once inside.
When I competed I planned for a slice of pizza and a small bucket of ice cream on Sunday evenings while making the next weeks meals. I “planned” for it, meaning I planned for an alternative “fuel” source.
More people need to think FOOD = FUEL and PLAN accordingly to achieve their goals while enjoying the process.
You can still function, perform, build muscle and burn fat whether you run on 82 octane or 97 octane, jut like your car. But if you go racing at the track you throw in a tankful of 102 octane for that little bit extra. For the most part better fuel equals better performance an I think everyone should choose their fuel more carefully when looking for a desired outcome.
Thanks Brad, ESE is a fantastic way to manage good and bad calories, simply by saying no to bad calories (and good) during a STOP but also I find i think about my next meal and make cleaner fuel choices right after my STOP.
It’s all about context. Sure, eating a piece of cake once a month is not “bad,” I totally agree with that. (Unless one has an allergy or whatever.) But in the real world, it’s not so simple. It basically boils down to abstinence vs. moderation. For many, moderation is probably easier. For others, going “cold turkey” (at least for a while) might actually be more doable. Everyone needs some trial and error to find out what’s best for them.
I don’t know if food can be considered an actual “addiction,” but it can certainly feel like it. Think about how hard it is for so many people to lose weight. We want to, we know we should, we basically know how, but we still can’t pull it off. I’m roughly 75-80 pounds overweight. I’m a smart guy, I know how to do it. Calorie deficit. That’s it. There may be some secondary factors, but it basically boils down to eating less. But just because I know how to do it doesn’t mean I’m actually doing it! Just think about how hard it is for most of us to do that, to simply eat less! Not eating high calorie/ fat/ sugar/ salt foods is enormously difficult for the vast majority of people, and moderation is oftentimes easier said than done. I’m not saying it’s “wrong” or “bad,” just that we all have to figure it out for ourselves.
I’m still trying moderation, so far with poor results. I’m going to keep trying to make it work. It’s not so much the strategy, it’s the person, whether he or she can make it work. I think that’s the key understanding. If *I* can’t make moderation work for me- I’ll have to try something else. Namely, eliminating a lot of foods from my diet entirely. I don’t want to do that, but I may have to eventually. That’s what trial and error is all about. At some point, it’s rational to give up.
John, well put about the labels of “good” and “bad” on food. Just like most things in life, it’s better to be balanced then at the polar opposite ends.
Perfect example, I’ve been making healthy choices all week but I have a party to attend so, am I going to be the a-hole who turns down homemade pasta or a delicate pastry from the host because they are generally viewed as “bad” foods?
I think not… I’ll enjoy the food and move on because it’s the average of your choices that really matters.
I agree more with Heather. This post was more about two separate ideas. Labeling food vs. becoming obsessive about it. You can do the former without succumbing to the latter.
Stated another way, you can label foods laden with MSG as bad but not beat yourself up if you eat a few doritos now and then.
Thanks for the useful info. It’s so interesting
To heather:
“”"I would really like to not only agree with this post but to also live by it..unfortunately I can’t. I do think there are ‘good’ and ‘bad’ foods. If I eat cake (or cookies or bread or anything with sugar or flour or preservatives) I immediately feel it. I get sick, bloated, and it causes me to become an insomniac along with some other lovely symptoms.”"
I’m sorry to have to be blunt, but this simply means you binged on the food. I now eat what are known as “bad foods” very often, but I modelled “naturally thin” people… For example when I eat a candy bar I squeeze every last atom out of it with every last molecule in each bite… Guess what, I end up eating like a small little tiny piece (if its cake, like 1/10 of a slice fills me up).
Look into Paul McKenna’s work (I can make you thin series). If you can’t eat “bad food” without getting ill, it means you still have OCE, and you have externally based markers of eating… Like you cut a slice of cake and your barometer of how much to eat is what you cut (eat the entire slice). That’s dieting mentality that has us eat based on external markers, instead of internal (how much it fills us, what our body craves etc…).
“”For me, ‘bad’ food even in moderation is not okay. To those of us who can’t see or feel the effects of ‘junk’ food right away..I believe it plays a role in disease or health of the body as we get older.”"
The reason you can’t see the effects right away is most likely since you’re not chewing and enjoying the food.
This whole notion of diet food was invented by bulimics who couldn’t get a handle on their psyche (cramming food in), so they try to control the inner problem by external measures (finding foods that are impossible to cram or overeat on). So they declared the hard-to-overeat foods as “good” and the easy-to-overeat foods as “bad”. Its just an attempt at avoiding the real issue, which is eating unconciously, instead of following what your tummy says.
These people instead of realizing that you can have 1tsp of mayo on top of your meat (if you savour every single atom and truly enjoy every bite)… they went and declared mayo evil (since its easier than admitting they have no self-control and have to swim in mayo if they eat it).
In response to Jordan:
“”"I’m still trying moderation, so far with poor results. I’m going to keep trying to make it work. It’s not so much the strategy, it’s the person, whether he or she can make it work. I think that’s the key understanding. If *I* can’t make moderation work for me- I’ll have to try something else. Namely, eliminating a lot of foods from my diet entirely. I don’t want to do that, but I may have to eventually. That’s what trial and error is all about. At some point, it’s rational to give up.”"”
Studies on dieting found that the mythical (90% of dieters fail is true)… Guess what though? They also found the reasons the other 10% (or however many) succeed is guess what? Flexibility and moderation.
All failures had one thing in common – rigid rules like abstinence and such.
Now, how do you actually achieve moderation and make it work? Its actually pretty easy. I’ve suggested this to Brad before, but I think he should include more about the “eat” portion of eat-stop-eat.
I’ve personally pretty much cracked the “moderation” code. Most people ask me if I’m anorexic when they see me eat, lol. Because when I take “normal people food”, like something sweet, or a nice 3 course meal, I eat such tiny little portions it seems like a bird ate. I end up leaving most of the food on the plate. And no, i’m not making myself only eat a little… I am actually stuffed by just a few french fries, a few bites of the sandwich and a gulp of the coke (this is from a former 250 pound person).
How do you do this? Simple! (most people don’t wanna accept its this simple, its almost insulting to most dieters!). You just savour every single molecule of the food (brad mentions this in ESE, but unfortunately only in passing, it should be mentioned more)… You savour every single molecule. If you just cooked something, by the time you’re done eating the food should have gone cold. Chew everything at least 30-40 times (obsessive compulsive dieters cram food in, like chew it 1-2 times and gulp it down).
You can check out McKenna’s “I can make you thin” series for more info on how to achieve this. I combine McKenna and ESE for the perfect combination. McKenna is about how to achieve moderation in eating, and ESE is how to take advantage of fasting. Unfortunately ESE assumes you have the “eat” part handled and moderation. So McKenna is good source for handling that one.
AlekNovy, interesting perspective. But I can’t think of anything more obsessive and crazy looking than chewing 1 tiny bite of a sliver of cake 40 times.
I just tried to chew a normal bite of my sandwich 40 times, but it was impossible (and unappetizing).
Brad’s blog is really bringing out just how weird we are with food. I don’t mean any single person here, but in general, taken as a whole.
Great post. Enormous scope though. For instance, I am learning to ‘read’ my body so as to know what foods are ‘good’ for me and what aren’t but I have a young daughter who has digestion problems and one thing we have found out through trial and error is that potatoes are bad for her, giving her bad breath (and if she drinks milk also does it) and if she eats a potato based meal (like veg and potato bake) she is literally ill for several days (temperature, only wants to sleep and no appetite) it has happened on enough occasions to be certain of this so ok she hardly ever has potato and no problem.
To know what else is ‘bothering’ her, does anyone else know of a ‘way’ to know if your body likes a food or not??
I have even tried using ‘pendulum’ method
0, plus taking note of ayurvedic guidelines for different body types. She and I are complete opposites in which foods suit us – her favorite being pasta, cheese (and sweets although ok no advice needed here!)
Anyone know any other ideas for discerning what our own personal body likes or dislikes, health-wise?
@Art
Anything you haven’t done your entire life feels weird and outside your comfort zone. The only reason you think its “crazy looking” is because you’ve been gorging on food all your life. Its not weird to “naturally thin” people at all.
How is “enjoying your food” instead of cramming it down your throat obsessive? Its not natural for people to chew a bite 2 times and swallow. Plenty of studies on this.
@Art
YES!! You get it! That’s the whole point. When you eat foods like a “naturally thin person”, your entire taste changes. When I first adapted “thin person eating”, half of my favorite junk foods started tasting like cr*p… And that’s how it should be.
Here’s an experiment. If you DARE try it!! Take out a naturally thin friend of yours… I’m talking the kind of person who you see eating whatever they like, all their life, and always been thin. Go to a restaurant, go ahead, take them out for dinner. (You can alternatively take out a french person)…
Notice who finishes the plate first and how long it takes them to chew the food.
You can also try one of the “why are french people thin” books for another twist at this perspective. Ever noticed how super-small french-servings are? Now note this… they take 1 FULL HOUR to eat a meal… its mandatory with employers in those countries. And all of it is actual eating. Yet the servings are tiny. Same with parts of italy. They literally taste every molecule, and they recognize no bad-foods (one of the healthiest nations on earth, and they relish all of the foods on ouy “bad foods” list).
Their perspective is not “obsess with every molecule” or “suck out the nutrition out of every molecule” but the keyword is “enjoy every single molecule of that food, cherish it”… Like they take the wine-glass, shake it, smell it, sigh… lick the top, and then drink 1 gulp and mix it around their mouth for a good minute and finally swallow it with a sigh of enjoyment. At the same time the american/german has downed an entire gallon of coke.
They’ve found in studies that children before they’re taught what to eat, if put in a room full of foods, by the end of the day, what they had chosen amounted to a solid, balanced diet (even if the individual choices seemed unbalanced).
Unfortunately, later in life we learn what to eat based on culture, habit, commercials, lists etc… and we lose track of what our bodies tell us to eat. The voice of what our body likes is still in there.
How do you find that voice again?
1) Simple. Just taste the food thorougly and deeply. Taste every molecule of it… It will feel weird, and it will feel ackward (to most of us who aren’t naturally thin, ALL naturally thin people eat this way).
Quick Story – When I first adapted this method, I went for my favorite snack food, potato-chips, and ended up sick and throwing the bag in the garbage (funny considering I used to love this stuff)… So now, I don’t eat potato chips not because they’re on some “bad foods” list, but simply because I now (when eating conciously) hate their taste!
2) Don’t rush to judgements like “potatoes are bad for her”… There are no bad foods, only bad timings and combinations. What was bad when you tested it yesterday, could be the perfect choice today. That’s part of the OCE dieting mentality to create lists. I know its tempting to wanna create a list of foods to avoid… but if you do that, you’re just shutting your ear to the inner-voice… The voice of the body that tells you what to eat right now.
So learn how to asses foods in *real-time*… To get to the point where you can in real-time know what your body wants and needs. What’s a good food *now* in this moment. There are not foods that our body likes. There are foods that our body would like to have right now, at this moment.
You get there by throwing away all lists, tuning into your body (physically, not mentally in your base of lists and habits) and “feeling” what you “feel” like eating. And then you eat it conciously. Over time you’ll develop the ability to asses this stuff in real-time.
Hi everyone,
I’m so confused on what to believe. Someone please tell me why there’s all the hype about Carbs then! Almost every diet book that I’ve come across lately, from Suzanne Somers to How the Rich Stay Thin to Wall Street Diet to Jillian Michaels claim that you must eat less carbs to lose weight! I’m so confused b/c I trust that Brad has done all the research that it really comes down to calories, but then these books all have research too! I pretty much keep my calories between 1400-1800, but I like carbs. I have skinny arms and legs, but my stomach and love handles are not so pretty after having a baby. I’m getting so frustrated b/c I know if I cut my calories lower, I’ll give up and end up even more frustrated. Any advice? I fast 1 day a week right now, by the way.
Terri, its pretty obvious to me that you do not do strength-training, am I right? I might be wrong, but since you say you have skinny arms & legs, but still love handles… I’m thinking you’re the “skinny fat” body-type. This is the type of person who has dieted off their muscle instead of their fat.
You need to exercise for muscle, and no, it won’t make you look “muscular”… Just toned. The “toned” look in women comes from excercising the muscle, and dieting off the fat. If you’re dieting, but not excercising the muscle, you’re just burning muscle (hence fat tummy, skinny arms)
“”I’m so confused b/c I trust that Brad has done all the research that it really comes down to calories, but then these books all have research too!”"
Yeah… Except none of their studies actually show that carbs have any special fat-loss effects lol. If you actually read all the studies they quote they ALL actually show that if you ask people to eat low-carb, they will lose more *weight*… Its a tricky sneaky trick on their part
Clever wording.
They don’t let you know that this only happens because when you tell people to eat less/no carbs they up with nothing to eat, and eat less calories overall and the studies quote “weight” not fat… When you go keto, your body stores a lot less fat, so you weight less. In studies where they have people eating the SAME caloric intake, with one being low-carb, the other high-carb… The *fatloss* is the same.
Again, a lot of these author have HUGE commercial interests which involve selling you a bunch of supplements and “diet-approved” foods. In order to do that, they have to convince you that there is some SPECIAL type of food that CAUSES weight-loss, lol. Brad Pilon (and SCIENCE) tells you that you can eat anything you want… after the book brad, doesn’t have anything to sell you.
Lo-carb bars, lo-carb milk, lo-carb cell-phone, lol…
P.S.
The STRENGTH training tip I gave you at the top is CRUCIAL, please re-read it. If you’re not doing it, its your only major mistake right now!
Lol, I messed up in my commeting above…
I said… “When you go keto, your body stores a lot less FAT”
I meant… “When you go keto, your body stores a lot less WATER” lol
Thanks Alek! What kind of strength training do you recommend for a “whimpy” woman? Lol. I just recently started adding some free weights. How do I get rid of my gut? I want to see abs again without starving myself!