Ok, Warning – I get pretty philosophical with this post.
Number one question I get about fasting?
What about losing muscle mass?
The truth is (as I point out in Eat Stop Eat) you don’t lose muscle while following Eat Stop Eat because you are resistance training AND fasting.
Of course, this naturally leads to questions about how much protein a person should be eating.
In fact, there were enough questions about protein that I ended up having to write my book “How Much Protein?” to properly answer the questions.
These questions led me to some questions of my own…
Mainly…
Why Protein?
If people are so concerned about their muscle mass, why is it protein that they asked about? Why not anabolic steroids?
After all even the most DIE HARD protein pusher will admit that the effectiveness of protein is very limited.
Protein just isn’t going to make you massive.
Anabolic steroids on the other hand…They have a very good track record for building muscle. Lot’s of it.
In fact…all legal and ethical issues aside, fasting, resistance training and steroids would make for a very, very powerful effect.
Now, I’m not about to recommend steroids. Frankly, I just don’t know enough about them.
Even though it seems like every week another one of our sports idols has been caught doping.
And rumors spread that just about every pro sport has an almost incurable need for steroids in their sport.
In order for the masses to be entertained, the actors (in this case the athletes) need to be almost-super human.
That and, I’m no dummy. I’ve been around the steroid game long enough to spot a user.
I’ve never used, but I know you can walk into any gym in Southern Ontario and easily pick out a handful of high school kids who are ‘on’.
Bottom line – if you are in the weight training game, then you are surrounded by users.
So Here’s my question for you:
If I were able to provide indisputable proof that the ONLY way for you to get more muscle than you have right now is to use anabolic steroids, and that the health ramifications were minor (remember this is just for discussion purposes, I’m not saying this is the case)..what would be your reasons for taking/or not taking them?
Please be sure to qualify all of the assumptions in your arguments.
B
Hi Brad, i think you bring up a good question. I’ve never done steriods myself, but it was one of the only drugs i was ever tempted to use, especially back in the 80′s when i was in the Airforce, and with the easy access at the time.
And to add to your question, what about health benefits. For instance Hiv patients have been known to take steroids to retain muscle mass. I know of one famous bodybuilder of the 80′s who got leukemia whose doctors didn’t think he would have survived if it wasn’t for the muscle mass he had at the time. Athletes in contact sports such as football get better recovery from injuries and training. Also the studies of longevity and how the hormones such as testosterone and gh therapy etc. Work in concert to create a better lifestyle as people age. All of these things are usually ignored and not studied in the first place because of the the hysteria and unwaranted crusade against them, especially from politicians in there 70′s who are taking hormone therapy themselves, kind of hypicritical. The fact is they are a drug, and like any drug if they are abused and not used properly obviously there could be problems. But the fact is people die all the time or have health problems from taking too many NSAID’s such as advil, Tylenol etc. You could take a whole bottle of Aspirin in one sitting or a whole bottle of some oral steriod, and the reality is you’d die from the aspirin ingestion and not the steriods. Last but not least, if they were legal again under a doctors supervision, research could precede in a better pace, the people that are taking them now would know what they are actually taking,where it comes from and could be monitored, and finally this whole idea that we need the Government to protect us against our selves, and that we can’t make educated choices when it regards to medications etc. Well i think that’s ridiculous. Sorry for such a long post, but i thought you brought up a good question. James
[...] Go to Source Bookmark It Hide Sites $$(‘div.d601′).each( function(e) { e.visualEffect(‘slide_up’,{duration:0.5}) }); No tags for this post. [...]
Interesting…
The discussion on “to use, or not to use” is always a great debate with many facets. However, the way you’ve loaded your question removes the majority of the genuine struggle with the issue; be it moral or physical consequences. I assume that was your point.
Because in your theoretic world, if using steroids is the ONLY way to gain muscle you’ve effectively backed everyone and anyone out there interested in getting stronger, bigger, faster, into a corner and it becomes a matter of priorities.
If our priorities tip the scale so that looking “fit” and being stronger outweighs the possible health consequences then of course, we’d all use.
Personally, if there are any health ramification, major or minor I wouldn’t use. My total health is more important to me then strength at all costs.
BUT…if there were 100% NO health ramifications, I can tell you I would be shooting steroids 7 times a day and would hold every record in Major League Baseball.
And in this same world, you would could 100% prove that ice cream was healthy for me, I would be eating it by the trough.
I tend to think that side effects are too much of a risk, but I think that some people probably respond really well.
Below is a thoughtful exploration of steroid use by a man who took several performance enhancing drugs and chronicled his experiences. He came to some interesting conclusions:
http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html
I just finished reading How Much Protein?, and apparently there are good benefits to taking creatine. More muscle, more strength. what if creatine was illegal and steroids were more available? I guess I would be taking steroids and not creatine.
@James
James,
You hit about 10 nails right on the head with this post…you’ve summed up media hysteria blowing benign situations like steroid use out of proportion, political hipocrisy of all kinds, libertarianism and free will and how big gov is slowly taking that away from us, and the lack of scientific progress that the government nanny state causes by interfering with, well everything…man, you’ve got a treatise right there! Great stuff, I couldn’t have said it better myself.
John
Great topic Brad,
If I were to hypothetically say that the side effects of steriods were minor, than I would question why they aren’t legal? Truth is though that there are side effects. I might be able to make an agruement for professional athletes taking them (although it still p!sses me off everytime I hear someone getting caught) because that is there job and they get paid to play that sport.
But why would an average Joe like me need to use them? Sure I’d look a lot better, but I don’t think its worth the health risks as minimal as they might be. I think people like you and Craig have proved that if you work hard and eat right (or in your case don’t eat, lol) that you can have the body you want.
The problem with today’s society is that they want that great body RIGHT NOW. So they go to steriods and HGH. What people need to realize is that it took them years to become fat and get out of shape. They are not going to find Brad Pitt’s body in just a few weeks.
@Michael Cecchin
Mike,
I think Brad was talking about getting bigger than naturally possible. As in pushing past the apparent genetic limit to muscle size. Or even just accelerating the growth response to weight training beyond it’s naturally slow pace so that one year of training with drugs produces two years of results.
John
Anabolic steroids… what a great topic. When I was younger I never thought about them. Then I got older and have had several bouts of depression where I took antidepressents. My sex drive went away. My wife complained. I got on testosterone replacement. My test level, once
low, got very high. What about my libido? Still kind of mediocre. My strength and body composition have improved, and I’ve lost weight with
Eat Stop Eat, but how much effect have the T-shots had? I can’t really
say. I expect my doctor will say I don’t need them any more after my next blood test, but who knows? My point is that everyone is different. I am not philosophically opposed to steroid use. The problem is lack of knowledge by non-users, and that some users lose all sense of reason. The stuff is not candy. Orals are tricky and hard on the liver. Not everyone wants to give themselves injections. Most use is illegal, a definite problem. Serious abuse will kill your liver. Would more research be beneficial? Definitely. Likely to happen? Maybe. So now we have situations where many pro athletes feel they need to use to give themselves an edge, yet face fines, suspensions, stigma, and embarrassment if they are caught using. I read a few years ago that about 75% of NFL players used anabolic steroids. Don’t know if this is still true or not. The whole issue is a very knotty problem. I don’t think anyone in high school needs to use steroids. Train hard, eat well, and finish growing up. In college, who knows? Are college sports amateur? No. In pro sports some will use regardless. Is regulation necessary if Steroid use is to be allowed? Yes. Will there be cheaters? Always. What to do? Keep discussing the issue in a rational manner and strive to get rid of the paranoia, misinformation, and foolishness.
I think it depends on why I need them. Are my natural levels of certain hormones lower than “normal”. If so, I should be able to supplement these levels up to normal, healthy levels. People who have sub-perfect vision can wear glasses or contacts, diabetics can take insulin. So, why can’t men with low T take T?
If I loved a sport, take football for example, AND I worked at it every day, and I ate right and slept right and never drank or smoked AND I had some god given talent and physical attributes (size, strength, speed) AND taking steriods was the difference between me making $50K per year as an accountant or make $10M per year as a pro, you bet I would be taking them. I would bet there isn’t one pro in any sport that hasn’t needed that last push to get them over the top and I don’t blame them.
But to take them just to get bigger so you look good on the beach, that’s dumb.
Brad,
Interesting….very interesting….
Steroids work, plain and simple. However, the bottom line I think is that there is a huge difference between use and abuse.
Also, many users have NOT spent the time to research and discover how to use steroids (and ancillaries) to maximize effect and safety.
As a former “musclehead”, I have a little experience here, and I know that training hard and dieting while “on” will get you ripped fast. After all, that what the bodybuilders have been doing to prep fro shows for eons.
BTW, I live in Toronto if you ever want to chat.
I’m really impressed with these comments so Far! Everybody has made great points.
To be honest, I was expecting much more ‘stigma’ type talk about it being cheating etc etc, but you guys (and girl) have all raised some really good points!
Great thinking (especially for a Friday!)
B
For most men AND women who are over 30, it takes alot of effort toIncrease Testosterone and other important “Life Hormones” while strength training, proper diet (high in fat – low/moderate in carb – moderate in protein), have been shown to increase the two main “Life Hormones”: testosterone and hGH, some people need Hormone Replacement to vanquish the symptoms of the downward cycle of aging.
@Bill S
Bill,
You said it…to compete at the highest level you gotta do what everyone else is doing. Its a good bet that most of the pro’s are using the same stuff…otherwise only the guys who are using would always be winning and the guys not using would be getting trampled.
all pro football players have talent, they’re all fast, they’re all strong even without drugs…so imagine how much faster and stronger and faster recovery they have with drugs…if you have all the tools genetically and then you throw test and GH in ontop of that, nobody could ever compete with you. I think this is where the bar is set at in all pro sports…natural ability and genetics + Drugs.
It seems highly unlikely that only a few players here and there are using drugs and the rest can keep up with them without using drugs. I don’t even think its a choice for these guys.
It’s just what has to be done to make it that far.
John
“If the health ramifications were minor?” Please define minor.
I would not take them. Someone who tells me that I can only get X if I follow them is only out to get my money or sucker me in some way. I will train to the best of my abilities.
Why get freakishly huge and strong? Are you trying to intimidate the “regular” folks? Well, let me tell you, try being more secure in yourself. I’ve met my fair share of insecure muscle heads who felt they were “tough guys” because they could bench press a lot of weight. In fact I used to be one. All it means is I was trying to overcompensate for my feeling of powerlessness. It also alienated a lot of fun and normal people from my life. Not worth it.
Hey, if you want to hang out with dysfunctional types, knock yourself out but life is too short for that type of insecurity and drama. Also, normal people will avoid you.
Good question… But, in my case, it’s not a relevant one. Just like the question on “would you rather kill yourself, or 10 other people? 100? 1000? Sure it’s a moral question, but the answer doesn’t really mean or say anything about you as it is nothing more than words and thoughts. “IF” the “ONLY” way for me to get stronger/bigger/faster/anything was to take roids, then yes, there’s a big possibility that I would do it. But it’s not. I will never know that I can’t possibly “be bigger/anything”, because I will always be able to push just 1% more. So once again, good question, just not a very relevant one (in my opinion). No bashing, just an opinion. Have a great weekend! Alex
Bottom line: steroids work and have little to no side effects if taken correctly. Steroids, at a low to moderate level, have a very therapeutic effect on the body. In every way from protein synthesis, improved recovery from workouts and cell regeneration. The guys you see in the magazines take extraordinarily large amounts which go beyond being therapeutic. Anything, if over abused, will kill you. Even aspirin or diet soda. Also, I can say from personal experience if done this way you’ll have great results with little or no side effects. If a workout guru does everything perfect(plenty of protein, accurate resistance training, ample recovery time etc) he will gain about 12 pounds of actual muscle in 1 year. Thus is on the high end. With testosterone use one can gain 12 pounds in 2 months(of pure muscle).
I would come at this from the perspective of hormone replacement as one ages. Like a previous poster I’m on Testosterone Enathate 200 mg/week for low “T” levels. I’ve been on this for about 4 years. I’m now 41. I’m 5’10″, weigh 255 lbs at around 18%bf. I am by no means ripped but I can see my abs. I’ve been training literally since I was 10. My doc follows my blood work regularly etc. to make sure things are OK.
My logic is that as men age through there 30′s,40′s, 50′s and beyond “T” levels drop off. Just as woman take replacement hormones as they age for overall health & “well being” why not men also? The benefits of testosterone & growth hormone (as Rx’d by a knowlegeable physician & NOT the local “drug rep” at the gym) are indisputable. If it’s affordable I’m all for it.
Having said the above it never crossed my mind to take “steroids” before my doctor did some routine blood work when I was 37 & told me my “T” levels were low. OK, that’s not entirely true. I was tempted in my late teens when I realized I’d never look like Lou Ferrigno w/o them. I even had a doc willing to “hook me up” as I was competing at the time. (Talk about a big temptation for an 18 y/o wanting nothing more in life than to be HUGE!) I then read an article about them “activiating dormant cancer cells” and that was it for me! I chose to go the natural route. Frankly, and I’m not bragging, I’ve been nearly as big or bigger & nearly as strong or stronger than alot of the guys I’ve know who were juicing over the years. It just took longer to get to that level. The dose I now take is a small fraction of what real “users” do on a regular basis. My idea of hormone therapy prior to this was, and still is, heavy squats, deadlifts & supersets!
If they’ll help me hold on to strength & health so I can age like a Clarence Bass or George Turner (along w/ hard work!) then count me in. Having said that I’m totally against them when one is in there teens, 20′s and even 30′s if their blood levels are normal. It’s just not necessary when patience & hard work will garner very similar results. NO, not the same results, obviously drugs work very well but one can get quite big & strong w/o them!
I think that unless steroids have their place in sports
however, I dont think that anybody should be juicing for vanity purposes such as just for looking good,
however if my career or life depends on steroids, then that would be a definite yes.
There is only so much a person can reach without steroids, however, if at anytime a person has not made complete use of his or her potential then using steroids is like hastely constructing a building that has shaky foundations.
Hey Brad,
I’m a biology major at Johns Hopkins and well, I have become well acquainted with how anabolic steroids work. I think the fact that they build up muscle is sure a cool way to get big and strong quickly. But unfortunately, there are other things that come in that binding contract when you start using steroids. Things like impotence, severe acne, recessed hairline, excessive body odor and sweating are all side effects of using steroids. So if you think it’s worth it to shrink your package and really damage youself physiologically for the sake of getting bigger muscles.
Outside of the scientific standpoint, I believe in working hard for what I believe in. I am not going to try and cheat myself to a goal just because it seems appealing. Although it may seem enticing to have a shortcut, you feel much more accomplished about something when you actually go and try hard. And once you have reached your goal(s), you truly feel like you have earned it. So as far as steroids are concerned, they are the cheat road, and I am not interested in that.
I think that through all of this we can see that steroids are only good for people that want to cheat themselves to bigger muscles and put their overall health at risk. On the other hand, for the people that wish to truly make something out of themselves and feel as though they have worked towards something great, while at the same time being healthier than ever, then the good old diet and exercise road is the way to go.
-Louie
PS: Brad, you are by far the most realistic and sensible person to go to when it comes to losing weight and getting in the best shape of your life!!
For most of my life I never considered steroids because of all the horror stories of them. I am a female, wheelchair athlete and due to my disability I have to work twice as hard as even other wheelchair athletes to compete at the same level. It is interesting that the media and government has really shown all steriod use as negative, immoral and dangerous to one’s health when there is a whole other side to it. If I could heal my shoulders faster after a race that would not just help me at my next competition but just help me with daily life. It is an interesting field where I believe more research on just where the line is of being beneficial without being harmful would be an excellent help for some people.
I like Paul Florio’s take on it. I’m also on hormone replacement therapy but my dose is not enough for any bodybuilding type of effect. I’ve personally lived with low T levels and didn’t bother to get checked until wife had medical surgery and required HRT. It was only after reading about it and putting 2 and 2 together that I started researching and eventually joined wifey in treatment. The question as stated, receiving the benefits of either normal or elevated T levels with only minor risks or minor side effects, is easily answered to me. There are minor risks and side effects of aging, with all the decreasing hormone levels.
Perhaps there will be such a pill for already healthy (but aging) people to take to keep their bodies in youthful shape, both physically and mentally. We aren’t there yet, but it sure is an interesting idea.
I would not jeopardize my health, however, for mere body size. To me, that is ‘cheating’ and akin to those ridiculously sized breast implants for otherwise healthy young women with ample size to begin with.
Sorry to go off topic, but did you see this Brad?
“Caloric Restriction Slows Aging in Monkeys
The diet delays or prevents diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and brain atrophy”
“A 20-year study involving rhesus monkeys has provided the first strong evidence that caloric restriction slows the aging process in primates.
A diet that’s nutritionally adequate but provides 30 percent fewer calories than normal has been shown to extend life span and delay the onset of age-related diseases in other animals, including flies, worms, and rodents. But because studies on primates take much longer, the benefits had not yet been demonstrated to extend to them. Now researchers at the National Primate Research Center at the University of Wisconsin-Madison report that in rhesus monkeys, caloric restriction begun in adulthood reduces risk of the most common age-related conditions–diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and brain atrophy–by a third.”
http://www.technologyreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=22977&channel=biomedicine§ion=
Very interesting. And fasting two days a week with Eat Stop Eat is just about a 30% reduction in calories. Not sure I would call it extreme though…
Because steroids are for losers. If you are too much of a pussy to do the work to win then quit. I’ve known enough ‘roid heads to know most of them are lazy, unprincipled punks.
It’s different if you are in a ‘roid sport like Pro Bodybuilding and the Olympia. Most use them in sports where they are not approved. It’s just cheating. They kicked Pete Rose out of baseball for gambling yet they allow the records to stand of all those scumbag ‘roidhead home run heros.
Because I would never know what was me and what were the steroids.
When I was working a job where traveled, a coworker was shoulder pressing 165lbs on a smith machine. We went to a different location with a more bare bones equipment selection where with only a barbell, he could only manage a 135lb press. I commented, “It looks like you can press 135 and Mr. Smith can press 30.”
Steroids would be the same. How many home runs did Bonds or McGuire hit and how many did the steroids hit?
I want to know what I’m capable of – unadulterated.
I feel once you get past the fear mongering of the media, they’re probably just fine if used correctly.
I’ve lost a lot of mass over the years from all the downtime downtime of injuries. With pain still in the joints, it’s hard to get that mass back (or even any strength) from conventional methods.
I’d consider taking them to help get me healthy (yes I believe they’d make me healthier), but I’ve been brainwashed into having moral problems issues with obtaining and using illegal substances (even if they probably shouldn’t be).
Forum,
I have been in this field for many years, I have strength trained literally, thousands of people. I have spent much time with these issues. The lack of controls of the various factors is a huge problem.
1. Very few people strength train in a rational manner…despite overwhelming evidence to support pretty exacting protocols.
2.Hormonal profiles are profoundly effected by something as simple and mundane as adequate sunlight hitting the back of the retina (no glasses interfering with the spectrum). It is practically impossible to determine if hormone levels are low if this base is not covered. This refers to shaded indirect sunlight…not staring into the sun.
Eat Stop Eat has given us a huge piece of the puzzle to fit together many loose ends into a coherent protocol/understanding of the many physiological factors involved…many studies regarding strength training and fat loss support ESE’s arguments. Even though they were not fasting in these studies.
If someone is strength training rationally (a huge if) and they are doing ESE AND they are receiving adequate sunlight to promote a “normal hormonal profile” and they still have hormonal deficiencies or metabolic issues then the need for medically supervised hormonal therapy might be appropriate. The thing is that virtually nobody has those bases covered before they indulge in hormone therapy (legally or illegally).
T
Well.. first of all roids aren’t the ONLY way to get muscle. But if it was, and if they were harmless, then if they were legal (why wouldn’t they) and if they’d be sold over the counter (at a reasonable price)… they’d be not different from vitamins.. what’s the harm in that then. But there’s some HYOOGE IF’s
If health ramifications were minor… I would have to think about it depending on what you call minor… some acne, some excessive hair growth … sure I could deal with that.
I like working out. I like working on my body. I like seeing results. I like to work for my results, not buy them. Actually I don’t like to spend a lot of money on this silly hobby of me in the first place. I buy some whey mainly because I think it’s more ethical then eating the same amount of protein in meat (and convenient). Apart from that I just have some creatine and caffein and that’s it. All the rest is overpriced and overhyped and just isn’t plain effective enough (or illegal). It’s all marginal. I rather look at the big picture. If steroids were legal but expensive I’d still not buy them (and not because I don’t have the money)
With the possible exception of antibiotics in a life or death situation, I wouldn’t take any drug from the pharmaceutical industry – 200,000 dead Americans every year if the Archive of Internal Medicine is to be believed – nor would I take any drug whipped up in an underground lab by crackheads, bikers or down-on-their-luck chemists. While it can certainly be argued that there is a qualitative difference btwn use and abuse and the jury may still be out re: long term negative effects, “shrinkage” and bitch tits aside, I wouldn’t touch that crap with a ten foot pole. Having just turned 45, I’m lifting heavier than I ever have in a number of lifts and plan to beat my best in bench, squat, and deadlift before the year is out. To the best of my knowledge, Jack Lalanne never took steroids. Enough said.
Well I’m gonna chime in and jump around…
and all so you can call me a pussy? More power to you buddy but I highly doubt you would say something that ignorant to my face. But not to worry I would hurt you for being uneducated and disrespectful. Anyways your call buddy but I think you are an ignorant hillbilly who doesn’t have an educated leg to stand on.
But so far so good, touch wood they keep coming back… and I’ve been on and off steroids, GH, insulin and EPO for nearly 20 years. What can you put forward for experience? Oh ya right I forgot you “read about it”. Bloody armchair quarterbacks… opinions are like a$$holes everyone has one, they all use them to spew crap but that doesn’t make them the fountain of knowledge. I suggest you go out and talk to people that have been using them because, you my friend, don’t know what you are talking about. Mind you be careful because most people in the performance enhancement community haven’t had a good experience with people saying they want to study the subject and put forward an objective position…
First off, some of you get pissed off when athletes get caught. Wow that’s hypocritical seeing as we want them to perform miracles. We make the most out of every record broken, not the records tied… no one cares about anything, but the best performance. So the sad reality is WE have driven athletes to drugs. The endorsements rarely go to number 2 or 3 unless they happen to be loved by the general population and therefore marketable.
Another point to raise about athletes or at least an opinion I have is the that the vast majority of the top performers are using some form of performance enhancement… BUT even if you took it away most would likely remain at the top. Why? Because they have the best genetics, best training protocols, best diets, and tolerate drugs well ie get the most bang for the buck from them. Steroids wont make you into Arnold, or Barry Bonds, or anything other than take you closer to your genetic limit. They cannot make you more than your genetics will allow. Think about that… they don’t alter your DNA therefore you cannot surpass your given genetics. Yes they will make you bigger, faster, stronger and help you recover faster (of course all dependent on what type you use and for what purpose, they are all not created equal). They arent just for getting “Hooge”. Dang that statement is annoying…
Now I would like to challenge another view put forth here. The view that it is an unwise or unacceptable choice to use drugs to change your appearance or improve performance… but first the former then the latter. If using drugs to affect your appearance is unacceptable then Why is it ok to go under the knife and get breast implants? You can walk into your Doctor and say, wow I have low self esteem, I cant go on without larger breasts that will make me feel more accepted in society. Or a bigger penis for that matter. And Bam, your Dr prescribes implants or penile surgery. Wow lucky you and its legal. If that isn’t enough you can go in and get any type of implant or surgery you want to change or adjust your appearance. Risking your life going under anesthetic every time for the sake of a slightly crooked nose, breasts that weren’t large enough, droop too much, arent perky enough, calves that are too small, a penis that’s too small or not long enough, lips that arent pouty enough or heck you can even get your whole body pulled tighter and then stitched back up with a few botox injects added in for good measure, oh ya botox is a bloody toxin… Christ women can have a new hymen or cosmetic surgery to their genitals now, in case any part of it doesn’t look “just right”… So drugs for fat loss, anesthetic drugs for surgery, silicon implants (needs drugs), Depressed? Get some drugs… kids too energetic give ‘em drugs, etc, etc, etc blah, blah, blah but GOD forbid you make an educated decision on your own body to improve the quality and performance of your body including sexually (so long as you understand the potential risks to fertility and possible liver damage with a couple of the real hardcore drugs) by taking drugs which are for the most part, barring a few meds WAY better tolerated than alcohol which by the way is LEGAL and kills thousands if not 10′s of thousands annually… oh ya you can also smoke yourself to death and now if you have glaucoma (wink wink) you can get a medical marijuana card and smoke that too, which by the way is a drug and is 2,5 times as carcinogenic as cigarette smoke… wow seems hypocritcal especially when there are NO 100% proven cases of death due to steroid use. Let me qualify that, in cases where people had a predisposition to an enlarged heart (all athletes have them), perhaps a benign cancer (could be affected by GH use), temper management issues,etc… yes their are cases where it may have contributed but NEVER has it been tied directly to the death as primary cause.
I could elaborate more but this post is already out of control. But I cant resist.
In any case there are no proven cases of death due to steroids and like our first poster said there are many cases of death due to other drugs available over the counter such as Tylenol… now considering all the hype would you say that steroids ranks in the top 5 for emergency room drug related visits, death or injury? Top 10? Top 50 then? No way got to be top 100 for sure…. not a f&%$#^ chance. How about you try 147th… wow and we put people in jail over these drugs? Are you kidding me? Let me put this into sharper contrast for you… Tylenol, Aspirin, meth and cocaine, are in the top 10… smoking and Alcohol put more people in the hospital than steroids ever will…. and yet all of you are probably drinkers and have at some point drank way too much… maybe even smoked and not just cigarettes… so its ok for you to put such proven dangerous chemicals in your body but I have to risk going to jail because I want to put something in my body that will help it perform better? Unbelievable… and its my tax dollars that have to pay for your hospital visit due to emphysema and the wasted police time hunting down steroid dealers…
Did you know that there have been several studies done on replacing testosterone levels as a contraceptive and that it is more effective than the birth control pill? Hmmm… if it was killing people and your liver do you think they would be doing human trials? Not likely… these guys didn’t do anything different but added lean body mass and make the men infertile on a dosage that replaced their natural levels (in 6 months), aprox 200 mg a week. When they went off all returned to normal levels in 6 months. Wow sounds scary eh? No liver damage, no liver failure, no brain damage, no cases of these guys on a rampage with a gun, no permanent damage… yee gads what will we do? Lets rescind that stupid law criminalizing the use of steroids… Ooops we might look like dummies better not. I have a better idea lets keep the idiot sheep thinking its dangerous then we wont have to explain…
Oh ya another case, the one often quoted on liver damage. This was done with Anadrol during its use on anorexia patients in an attempt to save their lives. They were given dosages of between 500-1000 mg of Anadrol daily. The tablets typically come in 50 mg dosage. Now I don’t know a body builder that has taken more than 200mg daily and I’m including pros! and then only with some liver protectants like Milk Thistle, LIV-52, Essential forte, or its like. So BB’s are using one fifth of that dosage and they are at risk? Hmmm…. come on, the medical community cant even talk about steroids unless they are following the party line or they might lose their license. So how is there ever going to be a free and meaningful discussion on the topic?
About some of the language used here… I really wish all of you using the word “abuse” would stop and think about your use of that word because it implies human characteristics to an inanimate substance. This is a drug not a child! We arent “abusing” steroids, we are potentially over using or misusing (altho misusing I would challenge, a perfect example being viagra which was invented to help heart patients but because it can give you a raging hard on, yippee kye yay… Immediate pharmaceutical and governmental support! Another few examples are Bromocriptine (go read about it), GH (rejuv), Aspirin (used for heart protection and blood thinning but originally prescribed for headaches). Amazing we can use drugs for other purposes than they were intended for eh?
Personally I have one life, one body, and I plan on making the most of it… my idea and yours may not be the same and I don’t begrudge you that and in return I don’t expect you to pass laws limiting what I might do with my body so long as I don’t hurt anyone else. Hey Tax smokers and truly put the money towards treating all of them dying in hospitals and burdening the health care system.. do the same for drinkers and all the overweight people out there that lack the self discipline to control what they put in their mouths… how many such people do you know?
Anyways I would rather live till my 70′s, mountain biking with my grand children, playing tug-o-war with my sons, and sneaking away for some nookie with the missus… that’s quality. Even if I then drop dead, I’ll have had a good quality of life… I would have that any day over the life of the living dead from 50-90 without a hard on, afraid to bend over, slowly losing the ability to wipe my own ass, shuffling my way into a wheel chair and being lucky to take up walking, or golf (Trust me I like golf not slagging it but it isn’t a very demanding sport unless you are a pro), or lawn bowling.
Oh and on that note, for those of you out their thinking steroids are for pussy’s, just wrap your narrow minded noodle around this. After mid 40′s your organ weight is dropping, efficiency is dropping, you arent going to compete with guys half your age and you arent going to look half as good. But I will
Hey Louie, as far as your biology major goes you might want to revisit your schooling and find out where they get their facts from or better yet ask them for a refund. I will agree that testicles shrink but not your penis, hey they are not needed and on vacation
In any event, in my life I choose Quality over quantity any day of the week… but to each their own.
So how about this people, instead of being sheep to whatever you read, why not get educated… to paraphrase Brad (sorry buddy if I don’t do this justice) but “just because you heard something repeated in every newspaper, magazine and TV program day after day doesn’t make it true…” Case in point “eating 6 small meals every day” or “You go into starvation mode after 2 hours without food” I love that one… cant tell you how many times I said that before reading Brad’s%
I agree with you Brad you said I just don’t know enough about them.(steroids)
I don’t use them and I like to do my home work on anything that claims to enhance you in any way before puting it in to my body that goes for all types of enhancing claims most are just a scam to get your dollars in there hands. So each to there own but use common sence and do your home work before puting anything in to your body.
Cheers Steven
I would not take AAS because I am not that interested in building muscle I deadlift and squat 365lbs, bench 275lbs also sprint and do some endurance training, I’m way more interested in a being a well rounded athlete than simply muscle mass.
AAS even though I have never used them and never will are generally safe for healthy people with minimal side effects when proper dosages and cycles are done with proper PCT (Post Cycle Therapy) to prevent testicular shrinkage, HPTA shutdown, etc…etc…..
I just don’t see a use for them personally, I’m very happy with my performance, I make gains in strength/speed/endurance almost EO week and I couldn’t ask for better recovery and workouts.
I have nothing against steroids, they’re just not for me. However, I have also not used the following but have done some reading about them and they seem interesting: Albuterol, Kynoselen, Epo, etc…… non-steroidal performance enhancing drugs with very few side effects, in fact some of them (albuterol) raise good HDL cholesterol, etc….. these are the kind of drugs I would consider taking if I ever did take any, not steroid.s.
Different strokes for different folks, different drugs for different goals.
Hey Kevin R.
Looks like the anger and irritability side effect may be surfacing.
It’s a choice about your own body, that is a fundamental basic freedom that all people must have.
Anyone who is making a ‘moral’ judgment about the way someone else chooses to deal with their own body should check their head and mind their own business.
As long as my actions with my body do not cause any harm to you and yours or interfere with your freedoms, it is flatly and absolutely none of your business to judge what I am doing.
There were some comments above from a few people who seem to think they are standing on some moral high ground regarding this topic. That is a very discriminatory and inherently hypocritical position to take. (And unless you’ve done extensive research in this area uninformed as well).
I am sure you would like to also have the freedom to do with your own body as you please regardless of what the common masses of people think is acceptable or not.
Our societies do a good enough job taking away property rights when it comes to money, land, and just about everything else, the only ‘property’ we truly have left is our own bodies. None of us are in any position to judge others on what they do with their own body.
John
sure, please provide info on using them with I.F. I am 69 ,6′, 180# about 12% BF , use I.F. and generous hormonal replacement. Would like to have a little more muscle and a little less fat.
Brad,
A thought-provoking post. In answer to your question, I still would not take them. My reasoning is that in your hypothetical scenario you mention there are still health ramifications, albeit minor. I wouldn’t be willing to go through drug dealers. But the main reason is them being illegal. I’m a good citizen and won’t break the law of the land.
Wow, a lot of great comments here. This topic has really caught people’s attention.
I was thinking specifically about fasting and steroid use (without jumping into the ethical debate regarding the actual use of steroids) and it occurred to me that since fasting for 24 hours causes a generous release of natural GH, as you so clearly showed in your ESE book there Brad, fasting while doing a cycle of AAS could enhance the promotion of lean muscle mass.
In other words, fasting while on steroids could have a synergistic effect.
It would be interesting to see a study done on this.
Hi!
I would ask you a thing:
You told that if we do resistance training while fasting, we will not lose muscles.
What about swimming?
I go to swim two times a week. Is this training enough to not lose muscles.
I’m following Eat Stop Eat for a month so i don’t know if swimming is enough to mantain muscle mass or i have to add some other resistance training.
THANKS IN ADVANCE!
Hi,
I would not use because I don’t need to get any bigger than I am now. I am a woman and my genetecs have been on my favor and my muscles grow nicely with hard work (and good diet) and at the moment I do not need any more muscles. If I wanted to compete I would neet to use some since the girls on the arena have a lot more muscle than I do. However, if I were to get ill and needed the steroids for medication then the issue would be totally different.
I have been a member of body building society so long now that I have seen lot of different kind of users (most of them don’t use just steroids). One of them is in the hospital at the moment after suffering a severe stroke. Something went wrong probably he couldn’t face the fact he is on his own limits already. And this guy is huge winning thing. But he did this all for his own sake I do not believe he would choose any different after all this. I think people should have freedom to choose what they do their bodies. Use or not use as long as you do not harm others around you. Be happy with steroids or without them. Also I do not feel like taking drugs to get bigger or stronger is cheating. The guys (and girls) I know are using train harder than I could ever train. It is hard work regardless of using or not.
I hope people could have a little bit more open views to things and could let people live their lives the way they want.
Good article Brad.
I hate to see that steroids get such a bad reputation.
It’s just like anything else.
You can OD on tylenol and have bad side effects just as easily.
Most of the “side effects” of steroids are way blown out of proportion by the masses.
Scare tactics, fear mongering, whatever you want to call it.
The truth is, IMO they are no more harmful than anything else if researched, used correctly and certainly not abused.
I’ve never done (and will never do) injectables. Using a spike is more than I’m willing to do, but I have done 3 Oral Pro-Hormone runs.
About a year ago, I was about 206lbs. I’m only 5’7.
So using a combination of many different diets, (keto, warrior, ese, and some others) I was able to find the lifestyle that worked for me. (trial and error first of course)
It took about 10 months of only moderate effort, but I got down to 160 (but still at about 17% bodyfat). I quickly realized I didn’t have as much muscle mass to start with as I would have liked, and looked a little awkward/emaciated. (skinny fat as they call it)
After a few of these safe (thought out) and VERY effective PH runs in combination with a slightly altered ESE lifestyle, I’m sitting at 170ish and 10%.
I’m actually just finishing up one now, and honestly, I have too much LBM. So much so that people ASK me if I’m on something because I got so huge over night while shedding a ton of fat.
Is there anything else that will give you 15lbs of dry lean gains inside of 3 weeks? No. And for me, not much rivals the feeling I get looking in the mirror on cycle.
Done safely and properly, I am proof that the mentioned combination of ESE, Hard resistance training, and Steroids are a super effective combination.
The more LBM you have, the more calories you can burn, and the leaner you can be. I’ll take the help.
PS. Thanks Brad for having a hand in changing my life. I take pride in the fact that you’re Canadian.
Well Done! I Like it!